0:00

Thomasus presents, pondering the bagel with

0:02

Tom. Oh, the paradox of

0:04

the bagel. Tis crunchy yet soft, tis filling

0:06

yet has a hole, tis a vehicle for

0:09

spreads, but only travels from toaster to plate.

0:12

Thomasus, a za, a toast to

0:14

breakfast. High

0:16

Five Casino lets you play your favorite slot

0:18

in live table games like Blackjack with a

0:20

chance to redeem for real cash prizes. High

0:23

Five Casino has a giant selection of over

0:25

1200 games, including hundreds

0:27

of exclusive games only found on High

0:29

Five Casino. It's always free to play,

0:31

and free coins are given out every

0:33

four hours. Ready to have your own

0:35

High Five moment? Visit highfivecasino.com. That's high,

0:38

the number five, casino.com. No purchase necessary

0:40

void or prohibited by law must be

0:42

21 years or older. Terms and conditions

0:44

apply. I'm

0:53

a big believer in using

0:55

your voice, speaking loudly and

0:57

proudly, and fighting for what

0:59

you deserve. And nobody, nobody

1:01

uses their voice quite like

1:03

Taraji P. Henson. Taraji's

1:05

an actress, she's a producer and

1:07

a mental health advocate. She

1:09

shines in roles like hidden figures and

1:11

empire. But what I love the most

1:14

about Taraji is that this

1:16

is a woman who speaks her

1:18

truth. In fact, the word truth,

1:20

it's actually tattooed on her. Throughout

1:23

her life, Taraji has faced naysayers, and

1:25

at every turn, she believed deeply in

1:27

who she is and what she has

1:29

to offer. She's advocated for equal pay,

1:32

paving a path for those to come.

1:35

She inspires so many, including

1:37

myself. Today we celebrate

1:39

how far Taraji has come and

1:41

she's not done yet. Not even close.

1:44

I'm Hoda Codby. Welcome to season six

1:46

of my podcast, Making Space. I

2:03

love you. I saw you

2:06

at the Olympics for a brief moment and I was

2:08

trying to have a deep conversation with you at some

2:10

loud, screamy party. And you said

2:12

to me... Oh, the one Snoop Dogg was in. Yes. You

2:14

made a promise to me. You said, we are going to

2:16

have a big girl conversation later. Yes.

2:19

So this is our big girl conversation later. Here we are. I

2:21

love so many things about how you navigate

2:23

this world. And one of

2:25

them is a tattoo that you've sported for a

2:28

long time. And it says something that to me

2:30

defines you. And the word is truth.

2:32

Yeah. I mean, I've actually

2:35

been called that a lot. I have a

2:37

couple of friends that go, you the truth.

2:39

I just heard it throughout my life. Then

2:42

I started thinking about it. And I was like,

2:44

I hear people say I am the truth, but

2:46

it's because I support the truth. That's what I

2:49

long and yearn for the truth in

2:51

anything and everything. It's in the signs.

2:53

It's in my Zodiac sign, Virgos or

2:56

Secrets of Justice. I can't

2:58

help myself. Have you ever

3:00

been a pretender? Did you

3:02

ever try to be what

3:04

the world wanted you? I don't know

3:06

how to do that. You never did.

3:08

And because I'm going to tell you

3:10

why. My brain can't accept it because

3:12

I'm an actress. That's what I

3:14

do for a living. I act for a living. So at

3:16

some point I have to be real. Well,

3:19

what am I doing? What universe am

3:21

I living in? What

3:23

is happening here? So is that

3:26

when you were little too? Little

3:28

I was the only child and I lived, I

3:30

was very creative. And I think it's what makes

3:33

me the actress that I am. That's why I

3:35

ran to theater. I felt safe on the

3:37

stage because that's where I could live all

3:40

this stuff. And that was in my head

3:42

that I created. That was my safety net.

3:44

I lived in the hood. So I was

3:46

a quirky kid in the hood. I didn't

3:48

do the things that the hood kids did

3:50

because my mom, on the weekends, she would

3:52

send me down to the suburbs. So I

3:54

didn't have idle time to play in the

3:56

streets and do the things that the kids

3:58

in the neighborhood. You

4:00

know? And thank God for my mom, because our

4:02

neighbor, she got robbed twice. I was with her

4:04

twice. How old were you? I was six the

4:07

first time and 12 the second time. She's so

4:09

Pete, man. And the second time the guy hit

4:11

her so hard and a retina

4:13

tore. She had to get, yeah. And

4:15

then the first time the guy held a

4:17

gun up to her head. So

4:20

her, you know. How does

4:22

the sexual process that? I can't

4:24

even- Probably, I've been traumatized, but

4:27

here's the deal. My mother was,

4:29

you know, she didn't realize her strength at

4:31

the time. Cause she, you know, now I'm

4:33

getting older and I'm driving now and I'm

4:35

getting a life. I'm becoming a young adult.

4:37

And she would just be so scared. You're

4:39

going out, you're going out now. What time

4:41

are you coming? And she couldn't

4:44

understand why I was so fearless. I've

4:46

been having witnessed her be, you

4:51

know, that traumatization we went through. But

4:54

I told her, I said, mom, you don't

4:56

realize that you showed me how to be

4:58

strong because you didn't run into a closet

5:01

and hide. You know what you did? The

5:03

next day you woke up and you covered up

5:05

your black eye with your makeup and

5:08

you put your clothes on and you made yourself as

5:10

pretty as you could with that black eye. And you

5:12

went out into the world and faced it again. What

5:15

do you think that showed me? That

5:17

is super powerful. That is- Both

5:19

times she did it. Both times, the second time

5:21

the guy pulled, the first time the guy pulled

5:23

her hair so hard, he pulled the

5:26

plug of her hair out. What

5:28

did she do? She got up the

5:30

next day, she brushed that plug of hair out.

5:32

She put her makeup on and she faced the

5:34

world yet again. So what

5:37

do you think that's showing me? That's

5:39

like, yeah, that's not what she told you. It's

5:41

what she showed you every day. Exactly. It's not

5:43

your words, it's your actions. I like

5:45

to ask this question and it seems to reveal

5:47

a lot about each person I've interviewed. Same question.

5:49

So let me try it on you. Okay. I'll

5:52

just re-enterize for a second and

5:54

stand inside of what was your

5:56

childhood bedroom. I see it. Whatever

5:59

the sheets were. were Holly hobby, Holly hobby

6:01

sheets. Well, tell me what tell me

6:03

everything that you see, the walls,

6:06

the shelves, the sheets. I see

6:08

the Holly hobby matching bed sheets

6:10

with the strawberry shortcake or Holly hobby.

6:12

One of the one of the I had both, but

6:14

I can't you know, right now I'm in I think

6:17

I'm in Holly hobby. And

6:19

then I had the curtains. I had the comforter.

6:22

I had the sheets. I

6:25

see my kitchenette set because

6:27

I was a domestic player. I didn't play

6:29

with Barbie. She had too much. I

6:31

was poor. How my dog live

6:33

in the condo driving a convertible Corvette.

6:37

I don't have none of that. You not going to have

6:39

none of that. So I played

6:41

with baby alive. I love it. I

6:44

love it. I love it. That

6:46

made sense to me. I

6:48

see, I see my

6:50

closet where all my clothes were.

6:52

I see, Oh God, I can't

6:54

remember. I remember this like this. At the

6:56

foot of my bed, there was a desk

6:59

there and that's where I would do my hair.

7:01

I burned my eyelid there one time because I

7:03

learned how to work Marcel's because I went

7:06

to get my hair cut and I chopped my hair all off.

7:08

And my mother was like, I'm not doing your hair anymore. And

7:10

I was like, mission accomplished. So

7:13

ninth grade, I left the kitchen dudes behind.

7:16

I ventured out into the world, became

7:18

a big girl, but yeah, I burned my

7:20

eyelid there. I closed my eye in the

7:22

nick of time when the Marcel slipped out

7:24

of my hand and I burned my eye.

7:27

Wow. Did you have posters? Anyone

7:30

use? In that room? Yeah.

7:32

No, because I was young. By the

7:35

time we moved to

7:37

Oxen Hill, I was

7:39

a Prince fan. So I

7:42

wallpapered an entire wall with all

7:44

of his posters. Wow.

7:47

Yeah. How were you as a student? How were

7:49

you in school? I was a good

7:51

student, but I remember

7:53

when I started having problems. It was

7:55

really problems in school. I just started

7:58

showing out because I didn't. inside

8:00

I didn't belong there because

8:03

they weren't nurturing the creative side of

8:05

me. I see. And so that

8:07

was just running amuck and I had

8:09

nowhere to channel that energy and so I started

8:11

becoming a class clown in the ninth grade and

8:13

I was in a math and arts program

8:16

and I did not belong there

8:18

because I am not wired mathematically

8:20

or scientifically. I am an artist.

8:22

Okay, so since you weren't wired

8:24

that way, why did you go

8:26

into electrical engineering? Because

8:28

I was, okay, so I was in the hood,

8:30

I went to hood schools, right? And

8:33

I was very smart, like I was

8:35

smart and I was out grading, I

8:37

was getting high grades in everything and

8:40

so my middle school was like, you

8:42

know, in DC you go elementary to the sixth

8:44

grade, sixth, seventh and eighth is middle school. That's

8:47

how we get it. Oh no, sixth, seventh, eighth,

8:49

ninth is middle school. And then

8:51

tenth, eleventh and twelfth is high school. So

8:54

in the ninth grade they had a math

8:56

and science program and I just, like me

8:58

and my best friend, Tracy J Jenkins, who

9:00

went to my foundation. She's your best friend,

9:02

she's your best friend. We just

9:04

always felt advanced,

9:08

like we didn't belong, like they, I

9:10

don't know, just mentally we just were like ahead

9:13

or I think it's that creative side, you know

9:15

what I mean? We just felt like we didn't

9:17

belong and so the

9:20

high school teacher was talking to us about

9:22

Baloo High School and they had this ninth

9:24

grade program for smart students and so we

9:26

went. You

9:28

guys, you said, you said y'all

9:31

were friends, Taraji, for best friends.

9:33

Best friends. Besties. Okay,

9:36

so now here we are,

9:38

you're in college. I

9:40

loved your, by the way, I loved your room.

9:42

I loved hearing about it. I get over my eyes now?

9:44

Yeah, you can. Oh okay. I

9:47

felt safe there. I know, I could tell. Because

9:49

my times were great. I love, I love how

9:51

you describe it. I loved how you felt them.

9:53

I mean, the Holly hobby,

9:56

the whole thing. Yeah. What

9:58

was the moment, you know, there's a moment. and yours

10:00

happened when you were six when your mom was robbed,

10:02

but was that when your childhood

10:04

just kind of went into fast forward? You

10:07

were like, childhood, you

10:09

know, there's usually a moment that childhood

10:12

gets, I don't want to say

10:14

shattered, that sounds too big, but where

10:16

you didn't have that. I don't think that, no, you

10:18

know why? Because my mother was very protective of my

10:20

innocence. And she really

10:23

nurtured it and sheltered it. Oh, that's beautiful.

10:25

My mother sheltered it. My father was like,

10:27

here's the word! Go out there, good luck.

10:29

You know? But I

10:31

had that balance. Like I had one where my

10:33

mother just like, she really sheltered me and my

10:36

dad. It's not that he just let me run

10:38

amok, but he wanted to

10:40

make sure that he was instilling morals and

10:42

the right things so that I could be

10:44

street smart, you know, so that nobody can

10:46

come and take advantage of me, you know?

10:48

So he would show me the streets. And

10:51

I think that's why I never ended up on hard drugs

10:53

or becoming like an alcohol. Well, he was an alcoholic, so

10:55

I was like, I'm not going to do that. You

10:58

know, the opposite of that. But I think

11:00

the reason why I never did like hard drugs and I

11:03

never like hung out in the streets or felt the

11:05

urge to like go be in the streets and do these

11:07

things is because my dad let me do them. Oh,

11:09

that's interesting. You know what I mean? Like he

11:11

was like, when I went my freshman year in

11:14

college, there were so many girls that got pregnant

11:16

and I'm not judging anything or anybody, please, because

11:18

I ended up pregnant my senior, my junior year

11:20

of college at that time I was 24. But

11:23

still, you know what I mean? I'm not judging,

11:25

but I'm just saying I could tell the difference between

11:28

the kids who had been out in the world

11:30

already and the ones who were very sheltered because

11:32

it was almost like I can't wait to get away from

11:34

my parents. Then you go crazy. That

11:36

is you got that so right. Yeah. So

11:39

you went to school in North Carolina. You transferred to

11:41

Howard. Yes, because I flunked out of the math and

11:43

science program again. Because that wasn't your thing. Wasn't my

11:46

thing. See, that was put in a circle in a

11:48

square. Oh, yeah. We knew that wasn't

11:50

right. But did you just think that's responsible? Well, I

11:52

didn't get accepted into the highest school of fine arts.

11:54

And so I detoured and I was hanging out with

11:56

a very smart friend, Candace Dickens, if you're out there,

11:59

love you girl. She's really smart

12:01

and she's always been smart. She's

12:03

wired mathematically and scientifically. So we were hanging out and I

12:05

was like, we were friends and I was like, she was

12:07

going to North Carolina A&T. I knew I wanted to go

12:09

to college. I knew I

12:11

wanted to do something and be something, but I just

12:13

didn't know what. And I was like,

12:16

that sounds good. Let's try that. Let me try that.

12:18

When you went to Howard, did it just fit? Was

12:21

there something about it that just clicked right in? That's

12:23

when I knew I was where I was supposed to

12:25

be. Yeah, you were home. I didn't feel right. I

12:27

just knew I didn't belong at A&T. But

12:30

I did it. I followed through, I

12:32

went through a whole year and then I

12:34

fell pre-calc. And I

12:36

called my dad and he was like, good. And I said,

12:38

what? He

12:40

was like, yeah, that's what you needed to do. You need to fall on

12:43

your face. But that's how he taught.

12:45

That's how he taught. Parent me. He wouldn't

12:48

give me the solutions. He would

12:50

set up the problems. And he said, you

12:52

always have choices, but life

12:54

is choice driven. It's always going to come down

12:56

to what choice you make. And so

12:58

he put me in that crossroad and be like,

13:00

you got two choices. Good luck. Call me when

13:03

you get back. That would be like, ahh! It's

13:06

so funny because in hindsight, it's beautiful parenting. Oh, absolutely. But

13:08

when you're in the middle of it, you're like, help me

13:10

out here. Somebody help me. Yeah. But

13:14

he knew what he put in me. And he knew

13:16

I would always come back. And my dad was always

13:18

like that. So that's the type of, I

13:21

miss him so much, especially in times like this

13:24

when the world looks crazy because he could just,

13:27

he would say something and just make it

13:29

make sense, you know, or make me feel

13:31

safe. And I just hate

13:34

that he, I mean, in a

13:36

way I'm glad he's not here because he's protected and he's

13:38

safe. And that's one less person I have to worry

13:40

about. One less person that I love that, because I know

13:42

he's already safe. But then again, I

13:45

don't feel safe, you know. What

13:48

did you lose when he passed? Um,

13:51

my protector,

13:53

my friend, he was a, He

14:01

was a spiritual guide. I would call

14:03

him and he would be

14:05

like, you're going to meet three people. And I

14:07

would be like, what? No, listen to me. I was

14:10

in my prayer closet. You're

14:12

going to meet three people. And

14:14

these three people are going to change your life.

14:16

And I was like, what? He said, just listen

14:18

to what I'm saying and just be prepared. OK.

14:21

He would say things like, I

14:23

know it looks dark right now, baby. He said, but

14:25

when that thing crack open for you, you going to

14:27

need shades. Did

14:31

he get to see you in your glory and your

14:33

life? He did. The last, he didn't get to, he

14:35

didn't get a chance to. Wait, wait, wait. What was

14:37

the last thing he saw? I

14:40

think he saw Hustle and Flow. Oh, wow. Hustle and Flow

14:42

was the last thing he saw. And

14:44

he did get to hear that I got

14:47

nominated for an Oscar because he was in the hospital

14:49

at the time when his liver was failing and I

14:51

read the letter. But I

14:53

remember calling him before he had been admitted to

14:55

the hospital when he was still talking and everything

14:57

and coherent. And I told

14:59

him, I said, dad, dad, I was nominated

15:02

for an Oscar. But I said, my performance,

15:04

the song. And he took a deep inhale

15:06

and exhale because I know in his mind,

15:08

he was waiting. He wanted to see that

15:10

because my entire life, once

15:13

my father realized that I was not an athlete,

15:18

because he didn't have a boy and he was going to

15:20

try to make me be that boy, I was like, dad,

15:22

my two left feet. I'm not an athlete. But

15:24

when he zeroed in that it was talent, my arts

15:26

for me, he

15:29

really doubled down on that. I

15:31

love it. And the seeds that

15:34

he sowed into me were the affirmations.

15:36

You are the greatest actress in the

15:38

world. Walk around like that. You are

15:41

going to get that Oscar. You walk

15:43

around like you already have it. And

15:45

he would tell me that every time you are the

15:47

greatest actor alive, he would tell me that I grew

15:49

up believing that he was telling me this when I

15:51

was little. So I had no choice

15:54

but to walk

15:57

in that path because he paved it. And

16:00

I saw it. Once he started saying

16:02

it to me, I started seeing it. Okay,

16:05

that explains you totally. Now

16:07

I get you because I listen

16:10

to one of your speeches that I quote

16:12

all the time because I find it so

16:14

beautiful and moving. But you talked

16:17

about naysayers and you said the naysayers

16:19

are everywhere and they're gonna tell you

16:21

you can't. And you said, they

16:23

told me that I wasn't gonna graduate from Howard,

16:25

but you know what I did? And

16:28

you said, I walked across that stage with a

16:30

baby on my hip. And

16:32

then they told me I was too old to

16:34

go to Hollywood. So you know what I did?

16:37

And I was literally, I've watched it when I'm

16:39

in a funk. I rewatch it,

16:41

why? Because it reminds me that

16:43

naysayers are there, but what you

16:45

know inside you. And I was

16:47

wondering like, where did that come

16:49

from? But that, what you just

16:51

described made it so clear. But

16:54

when those naysayers are yelling in your

16:57

ear or whispering or finding their way

16:59

in your brain, how did

17:01

you, how were you able

17:03

to fend them off? I'm an

17:05

only child. Remember? I have a

17:07

whole world inside of my head and I

17:10

can go there and no one can touch

17:12

me. Oh, do you

17:14

remember who said to you? Oh, so many

17:16

people. Long as

17:18

you don't become the naysayer. Has

17:22

that ever happened? Oh, I can't, you know, we all

17:24

do it. And then I'd

17:26

be like, girl, you better stop tripping. You

17:28

know battle. And also the people

17:31

around me, you know,

17:33

it's all, it's all, can't do anything alone

17:35

and by yourself. You need people, you need

17:37

a team, you need soldiers, friends, you

17:40

know, companions, whatever. And

17:42

they have to be sowing seeds as well. You

17:45

pour into each other. That's how that works. And

17:47

if you're doing the pouring and nothing's been poured

17:49

into you, the nine times out of 10, you

17:51

need to let that go. More

17:56

ahead with Taraji P. Henson. Stay with us.

18:08

If you're a parent and your child needs some

18:10

homework help, then IXL is right for your family.

18:13

IXL is an online learning program for kids covering

18:15

math, language arts, science, and social studies, and it's

18:17

used in 95 of the top 100 school districts.

18:21

IXL has interactive practice problems for

18:23

topics from pre-K to 12th grade,

18:25

and everything is organized by grade

18:27

and subject. As kids practice, they

18:29

get positive feedback, awards, and explanations

18:31

for wrong answers. IXL figures out

18:33

what your kids need more help

18:35

with and recommends more topics to

18:37

practice. There are videos, lessons, sample

18:39

problems, and learning games, too. IXL

18:41

even has skill plans for specific

18:43

textbooks. One subscription to IXL gets

18:45

you all subjects and all grade

18:47

levels. Memberships start at just $9.95 a month. Make

18:51

an impact on your child's learning. Get

18:54

IXL now. Researchers can

18:56

get an exclusive 20% off IXL

18:58

membership when they sign up today

19:00

at ixl.com/HODA. Visit ixl.com/HODA to get

19:03

the most effective learning program out

19:05

there at the best price. Hear

19:09

that? Yeah, that's the sound of

19:11

you relaxing, because now you're managing diabetes with

19:13

the Freestyle Libre 3 system. You get to

19:15

know your glucose levels and where it's headed.

19:18

Manage your diabetes with more confidence with the

19:20

Freestyle Libre 3 system. Ready to learn more

19:23

about the number one prescribed CGM in

19:25

the US? Visit freestylelibre.us to learn more. Based

19:27

on retail sales data for patients last filled

19:29

prescription by manufacturer, refer to the FLARE NL4

19:32

study published in BMJ Open Diabetes Research and

19:34

Care 2019. Safety info found

19:36

at freestylelibre.us. Earning

19:40

your degree online doesn't mean you have to go

19:42

about it alone. At Capella University,

19:44

we're here to support you when you're

19:46

ready. From enrollment counselors who get

19:48

to know you and your goals, to academic

19:50

coaches who can help you form a plan

19:52

to stay on track. We care

19:54

about your success and are dedicated

19:57

to helping you pursue your goals. Going back

19:59

to the US. School is a big step,

20:01

but having support at every step of your

20:03

academic journey can make a big difference.

20:06

Imagine your future differently at cappella.edu.

20:16

Well, what I love about what you

20:18

do is I love all your work, but

20:21

that's not what I love about you. I mean,

20:23

your work's fantastic. Thank you.

20:25

But somehow you've used all

20:28

of the platform, which most people use to

20:30

nourish themselves, to make more for themselves, to

20:32

get more for themselves. You don't

20:34

do that. You're the one who's out there

20:36

advocating for other actresses to get paid more for yourself

20:38

and everybody. You're the one who's standing up there going,

20:40

let's talk mental health. And they're like, wait, wait, wait,

20:42

but we want to ask you about your dress, Taraji.

20:44

We want to ask you about the movie. You're like,

20:47

you put work in the air into

20:49

the world about that. I

20:51

mean, that's a conscious, obviously, effort. Is

20:53

this like a plan? This is what

20:56

you always had, how you

20:58

intended it to be. It's not a plan.

21:00

It's not I sit home and I'm calculating

21:02

like, this is what I want to do

21:04

today. I'm just in the moment and I'm

21:06

a human and I understand humans need humans.

21:08

I know that. I know

21:10

I had a talk with God a long time ago.

21:13

I'm telling you. Okay. So I did this

21:15

little movie called Baby Boy with John Singleton,

21:18

me, rest in peace and Tyrese. And it

21:20

was huge for me back then. I was a female lead. I was new

21:22

to Hollywood.

21:24

And I just remember everybody coming to

21:27

me going, oh my God, you're going to blow up. Do

21:29

you understand what John Singleton does to people's

21:31

careers? Look at this person and this person

21:33

is my, I don't know discernment told me

21:35

something different. And I just

21:37

knew it wasn't going to be that way. And I didn't, I hadn't

21:40

even really fully figured out

21:42

the politics of Hollywood yet. But

21:45

I just saw something sat on my heart and was like,

21:47

I don't know if that's going

21:49

to be my story. I don't know that

21:51

that's going to happen like that overnight for

21:53

me. And so sure

21:55

enough, but I knew deep down it would for

21:58

Tyrese. You did. And it's no hate. or

22:00

anything. I just knew. But what started with

22:02

that layer was the first layer of the

22:04

difference between women and men in Hollywood, but

22:06

it still didn't hit me yet. No. Because

22:08

I was still working. You understand? Alongside

22:10

a job, I was cool. I hadn't

22:12

gotten into the politics. I had the rolls, colored

22:14

lenses on. Everything was still like, oh, I got

22:16

a coffee. I got a job. I'm going to

22:19

call my mom and tell her I'm going to

22:21

be honest. You know, it's exciting and new. And

22:24

so I just remember everybody going, oh my God, you're going to

22:26

be big. You're going to be big. And I was like, I

22:28

just, I don't know. I'm not

22:30

feeling that right. What happened after Baby

22:32

Boy? Tyrese booked two franchise

22:35

films. Huge Transformers and

22:38

Fast and Furious. I

22:40

still have not booked my franchise film.

22:44

Been in the game almost 30 years. No

22:46

franchise film. I'm

22:51

not going to cry about it. I mean, it just,

22:53

I know what it is now. Now I'm behind on

22:56

the other side of the table now. So

22:59

there's this fatter. You can't, it's not like

23:01

you can't hurt my feelings anymore because now

23:03

I know this politics involved. So now I

23:05

know, don't expect, you

23:07

know? But that's why

23:09

I get it. It still sucks. But

23:11

I'm not setting myself up to hurt

23:13

my own feelings. There you go. You

23:15

know? Yeah.

23:19

So do you think speaking about it, speaking

23:21

about equal pay, speaking about things, which, by

23:23

the way, people are afraid to talk about

23:25

it, don't talk about it, aren't interested in

23:28

talking about it. That's why when

23:30

you talk about it, everyone's like, Jiraj is finally talking

23:32

about it. And then everyone says, Oh, me too. But

23:34

here's the problem that bugs me. What? I don't know

23:36

why that moment was chosen to be the moment. Because

23:40

it's not like I'm the only one that's been

23:42

saying it. Everyone is saying it. It

23:45

ain't just black women saying it. Like,

23:47

y'all, come on. This is not a

23:50

new conversation. I don't know why the

23:52

universe picked that moment or picked me

23:54

to amplify my message. I don't know

23:57

why. But I'm just glad it

23:59

happened. It had to be. somebody. But you know it's

24:01

so funny while I was reading and learning about all

24:03

this it reminded me of when I first started working

24:05

and I was in such a struggle for years and

24:08

years and they kept saying you're lucky my agent was

24:10

like just say thank you just say thank you know

24:12

how many girls want this job this job is amazing

24:15

and that becomes part of you and there there

24:17

was a point and I remember I said to

24:19

my agent at one point she goes I got

24:21

you this I said ask for X she goes

24:23

I'm not asking for that because I represent a

24:25

lot of people and I said I

24:27

know what I'm worth. You should

24:29

have been like okay thanks you're fired and

24:31

I'm finding someone who will fight for me

24:33

because you what you're not gonna do

24:35

is tell me my worth you don't go to work

24:38

with me every day and you're getting five percent of

24:40

my money do you want me to come slap me?

24:44

That's that's who I am now. Like don't

24:46

play with me. Yeah you're right. No seriously

24:48

I'm her now. I'm not dumb now. I'm

24:50

not this young little kid fresh off the

24:52

bus like whoo hoo. Thank you. Yes yes

24:54

and you know your worth. I know my

24:56

worth yeah and they did a thing with

24:58

the social media because I you know I

25:00

joined social media years ago because

25:03

I was hijacked into joining so I didn't want

25:05

to be on social media I didn't and

25:09

what happened was I had fans hitting me

25:11

up like are you on Facebook because they're

25:13

asking for money and you know the justice

25:15

part of me was like somebody stealing from

25:17

people. You in my name. So I went

25:19

to work and that's so literally

25:21

that's how I got on social media. I had

25:23

to and then the guy that helped me was

25:26

like you don't want to kill this page because

25:28

you have like 700,000 followers and then you'll have

25:30

to start. I didn't even know what followers were.

25:34

So that's how I got on it was Facebook

25:36

and then when Twitter came along everybody's like tweeting

25:38

and and I was like I don't want to

25:40

do that I don't want people all in my

25:42

personal life following me around you know and

25:44

then of course it became a part of the

25:46

industry and then one girlfriend talked me into it

25:48

and I got on and I liked Twitter. Yeah

25:50

I understood it. Yeah I was fine and it

25:52

was safe because you have to see me I

25:54

could say something and just hide you know but

25:58

then Instagram came up. But

26:02

like I said, this whole social media

26:04

thing only helped the artist because when

26:07

I joined social media, there were

26:09

no social media firms that would

26:11

help you build these numbers. So

26:14

every last person that

26:16

hit follow, that is because of me.

26:18

That was no one posting for me. Right. No

26:21

one's trying to help you out. That was my personality. Those

26:23

were my words. Yes. Still to

26:25

this day, I do my own. Now I get

26:27

busy sometimes, like the business stuff. I have someone

26:29

post that. Yeah. Help me out

26:32

here. But if it's real time stuff that is

26:34

me, that's me. Those are my words. The

26:37

mental health part of your life, your

26:40

dad suffered from PTSD. You were describing him because

26:42

he was in Vietnam and went through all that.

26:46

And you yourself, just like most

26:48

people in the world, and therapy,

26:50

of course, has its stigmas in

26:52

the rest. But how did you

26:54

find your way to feeling good

26:56

mentally? I still work

26:58

on that. I mean, it's not like you go,

27:00

no, you don't fix. I'm fixed. Everything's

27:02

perfect now. I'll be great for the

27:05

rest of my life. No, it doesn't.

27:07

It's every day. Every day. Is

27:10

there anything that worked especially for you that

27:13

you found? No, it works for

27:15

me being quiet. What works

27:17

for me is being quiet, taking time

27:19

for me, being still, because

27:22

you can't hear anything in the noise. You

27:24

can't work out anything in chaos.

27:27

So whenever I feel like it's too much, I

27:29

get real still and I get real quiet. It's

27:32

funny, young Pueblo was sitting right in that

27:34

seat. He's a beautiful writer. And

27:37

he said, sometimes when I get terrified, he said, I sit

27:39

on the edge of my bed and I

27:41

don't do anything. I say, I'm scared. And

27:44

I let the feeling will come and I'll

27:46

feel it in my body. I feel it almost

27:48

moving. And you said, if you

27:50

sit long enough, it goes away. But

27:53

it's just having the courage to sit through it.

27:56

Not exercise through it or call your friend through

27:58

it, or it's kind of your philosophy. Keep

28:00

it quiet. And I like the

28:02

show that you did with your friend. Oh

28:04

my God. Because it did

28:06

something. First of all, it was

28:09

like peeking, it was like a window into it.

28:11

But also it taught the story of like, the

28:13

stigma is erased. Say it, say

28:15

it, say it. What

28:19

kind of impact? Nothing changes in silence. Nothing

28:21

changes in the dark. If you keep sweeping

28:24

stuff under the carpet, that you're gonna die.

28:26

That dust is gonna come from up under

28:30

the carpet and consume you. Yeah. You

28:32

know, you have to deal with it. There is no

28:35

way to get, if there's a knit to

28:37

get over, you can't go over, you can't go

28:39

under, you gotta go through it. That's

28:42

the only way to grow. We

28:45

are not here, don't nobody wanna hear how

28:47

easy. How

28:49

are you going to help another human if you

28:52

have never been traumatized or you don't

28:54

have any obstacles? That is not life,

28:57

that's not real. Humans need

28:59

humans. I'm kidding, what color you are.

29:01

If you stupid enough to sit up

29:03

here and spend your life thinking about

29:05

race this, race that, girl boy, you're

29:07

missing it. Your spirit is

29:09

coming back. How

29:12

important, by the way. You are not gonna rest in

29:14

peace. You're not, you can't, tell

29:17

me about God in your life. I am

29:20

not a religious person. Like when I say

29:22

that, I'm not downing anything. It's just that

29:24

I don't follow the

29:26

structure or the foundations of gotta

29:28

go and do this. Because

29:31

sometimes it, I just

29:35

know God and I know God

29:37

exists, I know God is real. I've

29:40

seen God work in this world. I've seen

29:42

God work in my life and other people's

29:44

lives. I love God and I will

29:47

tell the world that. I

29:52

don't go to church every Sunday. Church

29:55

is in me. I

29:58

will do church online. I feel

30:00

like I need to congregate. It's just

30:02

harder to do those things when you

30:04

become... Yes, yeah. You

30:06

know? So in

30:08

order to keep my peace and

30:11

not make going to church an

30:13

obstacle, churches in me and churches

30:15

in my home or my computer or... I

30:18

have part of you. My friends around me,

30:20

we pray together. You know,

30:23

God is very much in my life and around me.

30:25

And so that's my strength and

30:27

that's what I pull from because I, you

30:29

know, humans are gonna break your heart. I'm

30:31

a human. I break people's heart. I

30:33

let people down all the time. That's what we do as

30:36

humans. We can't help it. You know,

30:38

it's called being human. So I don't

30:40

put too much power in humans' hands

30:43

because I know what... I'm a human. I know what's

30:45

gonna happen. You're gonna let me down. And

30:47

you're not gonna mean it because you're going through your

30:49

own thing. So there's my compassion and mercy. But

30:52

I have a God and my God never

30:54

lets me down. More

31:00

with Taraji P. Henson when we come back.

31:29

Meet the

31:58

next generation of podcasts. Stars with

32:00

SiriusXM's Listen Next program presented by

32:02

State Farm. As part of their

32:05

mission to help voices be heard,

32:07

State Farm teamed up with SiriusXM

32:09

to uplift diverse and emerging creators.

32:12

Tune in to Stars and Stars with Issa

32:14

as host Issa Nakazawa dives into birth charts

32:16

of her celeb guests. This

32:18

is just the start of a new wave

32:21

of podcasting. Visit statefarm.com to find out how

32:23

we can help prepare for your future. Like

32:26

a good neighbor, State Farm is there. So

32:35

Taraji, finally, if you have a day before

32:37

you, you open your eyes and

32:40

it's all yours. It's just

32:42

to fill your cup. Nobody's going

32:44

to, you don't have any obligations. It

32:47

is yours to replenish,

32:49

nourish, repot, whatever

32:51

it takes to make you feel whole again.

32:54

How do you, how would you spend that day? Oh,

32:58

like I spend most of my days on I'm replenished.

33:00

Like I can't wait to get back home to my

33:02

house and my dog. Oh, it's

33:04

that simple. What's your dog's name? Buddha.

33:07

Buddha. I love it.

33:10

I love it. So what's, what does it look like? You cozy

33:12

in on the couch? It depends. Like,

33:14

um, um, lately I've been

33:16

floating on a noodle in my pool. It's

33:19

been so hot there. Yeah, it feels good.

33:21

Um, it's incredible that or I, the

33:23

other day I was home by myself and me

33:25

and my dog and I opened up all my

33:28

patio doors. I have a lot of doors. I

33:30

have a beautiful view, 360 view of the city

33:32

of LA and I grilled,

33:34

um, surf and turf on the grill.

33:36

Like I just pamper myself. I have

33:38

a salon in my house where

33:40

I go and I do my, um, I,

33:44

I call it, it's okay. I

33:47

have a salon and as a little girl,

33:49

I used to play cause you know, I'm

33:51

in little, you know, only

33:53

child's very creative. And

33:56

I had all my little imaginary

33:58

friends and I. I remember

34:00

as a kid, I was always like, because we didn't

34:02

have a lot of money. And I was like, when

34:04

I grow up, I'm gonna have a little girls' room

34:06

where I have all my toys we couldn't afford. I'm

34:08

gonna buy them and put them in this room. Well,

34:10

my salon has become that. And

34:14

so I have, don't judge me, please.

34:17

I have doll, not doll heads, but they use

34:19

them for cosmetology school. I have

34:22

them every, I have white

34:24

girls with platinum blonde hair all the way to dark,

34:26

dark girls with a curly C4 hair. No,

34:28

4C hair, you know? And they're all

34:31

there and I talk to them and they're my clients. And

34:34

I also have silicone hands and I

34:36

practice doing nails. It's

34:38

actually a real salon and I have a square

34:40

register. I don't have any clients, but I

34:43

ring imaginary things up and I check

34:45

people out and I have an appointment

34:47

book and I write appointments in there and

34:49

I- You're the cutest thing I've ever said.

34:53

You're the cutest. First of all, the fact that you

34:55

said, when I get older, I'm gonna have all the

34:57

things I didn't have when I was

34:59

a kid. I don't tell myself no. And I live

35:01

within my means. Of course. I live

35:03

within my means and I shop high-low, like

35:05

everything doesn't have to be- But I love

35:08

the creative stuff always came out of you

35:10

somehow, the nails and the hair has always

35:12

been, because that's the perfect question. I have

35:14

to stay in the creative realm

35:17

or I wither up and die. And that's

35:19

what kept me sane during the pandemic. I

35:21

couldn't be on a stage, I couldn't be

35:23

on a set. Ah, so you did- So

35:26

I created in my salon. And

35:28

then when the world opened back up, I was like, I wanna go back out.

35:31

I like it in here. You're like, I'm so good. They

35:33

don't talk back to me and they love everything I do.

35:36

Well, I love that you have, by the way, you can always

35:38

tell someone, it's always your best friend, your 3 a.m. phone call

35:40

when you're stuck. Who do you

35:43

call? Oh, Tracy. Yeah, without question. Oh,

35:45

without question. It's not even a, most times

35:47

I don't even have to call or she feels it.

35:49

She knows. That's how we are though. Well, and Tracy

35:52

was on the show with you, the peace of mind.

35:54

Yes. I loved seeing that and seeing her. By

35:56

the way, you're awesome, man. You're just

35:59

an awesome Taraji. Thank

36:01

you so much for being with us. We appreciate

36:03

it. Thanks for having

36:05

me. Making

36:19

Space with Hoda Kotb is produced by

36:21

Alison Berger and Alexa Kasavecchia, along with

36:23

Kate Saunders. Our Associate

36:25

Audio Engineer is Juliana Mastorilli.

36:28

Our Audio Engineer is Katie Lau.

36:31

Original Music by John Estes. Bryson

36:33

Barnes is our Head of Audio

36:35

Production. Missy Dunlop Parsons is our

36:37

Executive Producer. Libby Leist is the

36:39

Executive Vice President of Today in

36:41

Lifestyle. Imagine

36:48

earning a degree that prepares you with

36:50

real skills for the real world. Capella

36:52

University's programmes teach skills relevant to your

36:54

career, so you can apply what you

36:56

learn right away. Learn how Capella can

36:58

make a difference in your life. capella.edu.

37:00

At Capella. Edu.